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Jeremy
He’s Myron Weber
Myron
He is Jeremy Thomas. And this is the Mental Supermodel’s podcast, Episode 2 in which your bold hosts discuss the topic of lateral thinking and its applications to mental modeling. And Jeremy, I think maybe a good way to start is to have you kind of recap from where we left off last time. Certainly this episode can stand by itself, but it’s also a continuation of things we talked about in Episode 1, which built on things that we talked about in our introductory Episode Zero. But I just want to make sure everyone knows you can find the show notes at mentalsupermodels.com/2. And with that, Jeremy take it away.
Jeremy
Thanks, Myron. Well, you know how much I love problems. Can’t get enough of them. Well, there have been times when I’ve implemented a type of thinking without even realizing that it could be a mental model. And you actually recognize this the other day and educated me on a technique that improved upon what I was already doing. We were talking about the six stages that we’ll recap. And these six stages serve as linked boundaries that bridge strategy and execution or help you work through a big, complex process. And just to recap that conversation, the intention of boundaries is to focus on smaller, manageable components. And we introduced those six stages as Discover, Map, Prioritize, Manage, Validate and Measure.
Myron
So for someone who hasn’t heard that episode, I recommend go back and listen to it. But this is, if I’m remembering exactly right, Jeremy. It’s basically, as you said, for going from strategy to execution within any sort of a business process or a business entity. And these six stages break that down into manageable steps, each of which has a certain objective or purpose or goal, has some constraints, some actions you perform to deliver an output or an outcome. How did I do?
Jeremy
Yeah. Yeah. The six stages effectively provide a path that you can follow that guide you through these big complex processes or even transformation programs, for example. But I want to break away from that linear thinking. That’s how we approached it in the last episode was as a linear journey. But I want to break away from the linear thinking where each stage is simply followed in order from beginning to end, because you encounter hazards and they create roadblocks that stop your momentum. So, in this episode, we want to introduce lateral thinking to provide a kind of creative, structural support across those six stages.
Myron
Lateral thinking that reminds me of a story. Can I tell a story?
Jeremy
Yeah, please.
Myron
OK, this is a story about my time with Dr. Edward De Bono. Now, for some people who hear that name, they might instantly resonate. He’s kind of a big deal, and yet a lot of people haven’t heard of him. So Edward De Bono, for those who don’t know, look him up. But he’s really a pioneer of the application of creative thinking to problem solving. And certainly came out of an academic background, but it was really more about practical and applied creative thinking for problem solving. So I actually got to spend some time with him. This was many, many years ago. This was in in the probably early to mid ’90s. And although, as you know, I’m a programmer, I’ve done many things. And I was actually working on a large public sector project for design and reuse in an economic development project. And the director of our project found out that Edward De Bono was going to be in town for a conference at a political think tank. And so he managed somehow to get Ed to show up a day early and come and consult on our project. And then that evening, there was a reception that was hosted by our project, as well as this political think tank. So, we all were going there and Dr. De Bono was going as well. So what happened was that when my wife heard reception, political think tank, all of this, she said, no, no. I’m out, sorry. Whereas everyone else brought their spouses along, whether it was willingly or coerced, so I was there and so our director kind of encouraged me to kind of hang out with Dr. De Bono and orient him and make sure he knew how to find the men’s room, whatever. So I was kind of Edward De Bono’s “+ 1” for the evening. So that was interesting. But one of the really interesting things I found was as I was just kind of hanging out near him, chatting, a lot of people would come up to him and want to talk to him, which is great, awesome. But people seemed to be compelled to try to be creative when they were around him. And so they would say really bizarre things like, oh, this wallpaper reminds me of a symphony. Someone actually said that I’m not making that one up. I don’t remember the other ones. But so at some point when no one else was around, I said, you know this is really interesting. But I got to ask, do you ever get tired of that? And he said, well, if I can spur people to creative thinking in any way, then I’m happy to do so. But now I was aware of him before that, but I hadn’t actually read any of his books. But following that, I’ve read a number of his books. I find them interesting and useful and one of the things that he is known for is really coining the phrase ‘lateral thinking’ and actually writing a book and writing about that concept in many of his books. And we are going to talk about lateral thinking in a couple different ways. So we are not just using Edward De Bono’s definition of it. I’ll come back and talk about that in a little bit. But Jeremy, you started out by saying how in this six stage process of walking from strategy to execution, that there’s lateral thinking that you are applying to that. So let’s get into that and then we’ll come back and talk about lateral thinking as a technique.
Jeremy
Yeah, yeah. A great story, by the way. We’ll talk more about Edward De Bono. I think he has a lot of good insights there. But yeah, when we’re going through the six stages, there’s always hazards. And that’s one thing that, when we’re looking at mental models and we’re trying to solve problems, we’re trying to either avoid hazards, mitigate those or work through them. And what I would like to do is highlight some common hazards that I’ve seen businesses encounter when executing. When you’re executing as best as you can, but against potentially some faulty strategic goals. Everybody starts with a strategy and then they’re expected to execute on them. But what if the strategy side isn’t really done properly, but you’re doing as good of a job as you can to execute on those. So just some hazards to consider. One, knowing what’s important. The priorities. When you’re being bombarded with ad hoc requests. So we have a stage for that that we call Manage. But that’s what you’re thinking, knowing what’s important. Secondly, miscommunications that send everyone down the wrong path.
Myron
If I could just ask, because I’m not sure that I’ve ever asked you this before. When you talk about these hazards, this is not the same thing we are talking about when we say in the constraints, right? In each stage of the process, there is a purpose, there are constraints, there are actions, and then there are outputs. These hazards you’re talking about, maybe some of the constraints were identified, but in many cases they’re going to be more about how you execute or unforeseen things that come up. Am I right in thinking that way?
Jeremy
Yeah, that’s a good point, because constraints to me are a little more known. Like, you know what your constraints are and you can plan for them and work around them. So with hazards, they’re more about risks that could happen that you need to think your way through rather than knowing for sure that they’re there. Like a constraint to something you can plan for.
Myron
Good. OK, thanks.
Jeremy
Yeah. So, knowing what’s important, miscommunications, and then how about not even measuring your outcomes to see what kind of value was provided. So, you have all of these strategies handed to you and you’re trying to figure out how to prioritize them when you’re being bombarded with ad hoc requests. Or you don’t have a good communication plan, so there’s miscommunication that’s sending everyone down the wrong path. Or you get to the end of a project and you’re delivering and you don’t even measure at this point. And everyone’s exhausted and you’re not even measuring against the goal or people forgot what they were even supposed to be measuring against because they weren’t even sure to begin with. And that happens a lot.
Myron
So these hazards occur and what we are going to talk about, if you’re ready for me to go ahead and talk about it.
Jeremy
Yeah, I set the stage for hazards. Because the path that we talked about before was lateral thinking. So you have these hazards. And I’d like to hear your thoughts about how you can take those and approach it from a lateral thinking perspective.
Myron
So let me talk about lateral thinking and really take the same concept, but view it from three different perspectives. So I really like the idea that when you talk about hazards, how do you get around a hazard? Well, one way is you move laterally and you go around. Right? But we’re not saying that you’re always going to go around these hazards. They’re not physical hazards. In most cases, they’re systemic hazards. There are people, there are a lack of resources, there are things that happen. So the question is, what are you going to do about these hazards. And so we’re going to talk about lateral thinking in really a couple of ways. One is the way that Edward De Bono talked about lateral thinking. My paraphrase is that as you’re thinking about something, you can often be thinking in a rut or in a line or in, you know, linear thinking and in order to change the way you think about a problem, you move laterally. And we’ll talk about some more examples of those kinds of things. But just one simple example: In a business that I was a partner in, I was the CTO and my good friend was the CEO and I was constantly coming with things like, hey, I was talking to my friend who works at Costco, and he was telling me things about their business model. What do you think, are there things from their business model that might be relevant to ours? And we were a technology consulting and custom software development company, not anything related to Costco. But by constantly bringing in these lateral thinking concepts, it spurs a different way of thinking about it. So that’s kind of Edward De Bono’s concept of lateral thinking. And we are going to dig into that a little bit more in the next few minutes. But the other thing I want to make clear is that we are also talking about an application of that lateral thinking concept to how you reformulated the six stage strategy to execution mental model from a purely linear process to make some lateral connections. So it’s sort of meta lateral at that point. And I’d love for you to kind of explain that, because I think it’s really interesting.
Jeremy
Yeah, well, the idea is that you want to get out in front of the hazards that we talked about to mitigate them by incorporating this lateral thinking into your management routine. Again, lateral thinking, I think the application of it is to spur creativity or to think about something in a different way. So if you’re thinking about mitigating hazards, for example, if we take the first three stages that we talked about – Discover, Map and Prioritize – we can bundle those into what we call a strategy pillar. So the first three stages – Discover, Map, Prioritize – you bundle those into a strategy pillar and you’re basically, within that pillar, defining where you want to go and how you want to get there. And then we look at the next three stages – Manage, Validate, and Measure – as the execution pillar. And so if we think laterally, the first stage Discover is supported by measuring. The second stage Map is supported by validating. And the third stage Prioritize is supported by Manage. So, first, as you’re discovering your strategic goals, know that at some point you’re going to have to measure the outcomes of the initiatives, which seems obvious. But being deliberate about how you’re going to measure the outcomes tomorrow will help you define better goals today. And having other people think about and provide feedback on how they would measure introduces this lateral perspective. So if you’re thinking about measuring, it’s just going to help you actually develop your goals better.
Myron
I just want to make sure that I’m getting this and summarize it so that everyone’s following along. By the way, the article you wrote about this will be linked to mentalsupermodels.com/2. But the overall process of solving a problem or executing on business objectives is now broken into two pillars the strategy pillar and the execution pillar. And in the strategy pillar, the steps are Discover, Map and Prioritize. And then in the execution pillar, the stages are Manage, Validate, and Measure. And what you’re saying is that those link laterally. So it’s not just a linear process because you can link the Manage back to the Prioritize the Validate back to the Map and the Measure back to the Discover.
Jeremy
Yeah, exactly. And it provides a way of supporting both pillars because they lie right next to each other in essence. So one supports the other.
Myron
I just wanted to make sure it was clear to anyone sort of getting a mental picture of it so they can follow along.
Jeremy
Yeah, I appreciate that. So, we talked about the Discover and how it’s supported by measuring. And then secondly, the business cases that you create during the Map stage, those business cases that you create will be more specific and refined knowing that you’ll periodically be validating them. A lot of times people will approach business cases kind of as a silo. But if laterally you’re thinking about how will this business case be validated. Not just before it gets approved or a project gets approved, but as that project is being executed on to support that business case? How is it going to be validated that what you’re doing and implementing is still supporting the intention of the business case. So that’s the lateral part as you’re developing the business case, if you think about how you’re going to validate it. It’ll just help you build a stronger business case. And then thirdly, when you’re laying out your roadmaps during the Prioritize stage and thinking about the constraints of managing initiatives, that’ll help you prioritize and sequence the projects more effectively. So because you might have one way of prioritizing, which makes sense to you, but if you bring in others and you start thinking about how will these be managed practically. That could adjust your priorities and adjust the way that you sequence them on the road map.
Myron
Yeah, yeah, and from my experience, and I’m sure yours as well because it’s a pretty common thing, these things always change along the way. We’re talking about dynamic human systems. So, for example, what you think you’ve discovered in the Discover phase can turn out not to be correct and you have to make adjustments along the way. But it’s also very important to not allow that dynamic changing nature of things to cause us to throw up our hands and say, well, everything’s going to change so what’s the point. Right? I think one very concrete application of what you’re saying is in that Discover stage right at the outset, thinking OK as we set our objectives, we set our goals, how are we going to know if we’ve achieved this goal? What’s our measure? And it might be a little vague at that point, but at least you’re identifying how are we going to measure it. When you move to the Map stage thinking explicitly and concretely, how are we going to validate this. And in the Priority stage, how are we going to manage this? And then as you go through and start executing, those same linkages exist in the other way. As you’re managing, you refer back to the priorities. As you’re validating, you refer back to the map. And as you’re measuring, you refer back to the Discover stage. And so those lateral connections go both ways.
Jeremy
And I think what’s important is that lateral thinking introduces a type of creativity into the process in an innovative way of thinking. And I think one of the points to make is that you’re not just doing this yourself. The lateral thinking isn’t just you thinking laterally. It’s about bringing others in to help you think. To think laterally themselves. So, whenever you’re developing these goals, you’re not just sitting there by yourself thinking, how am I going to measure these? What’s creative about this lateral thinking is that you ask others for their feedback on how would you measure this. If you had this goal, how would you measure it? And it just gets the creativity from them, even though they didn’t come up with the goal. It’s not theirs. If they have to think about how they would measure based on just the way you’re explaining it to them. That’s where you’ll start finding some holes in your goals. If they’re too vague or not. But that lateral thinking brings in creativity from others, not just yourself, thinking laterally.
Myron
Yeah, yeah, and you know what? When you first showed me this idea of these lateral connections, what I saw that you had done, there’s a word for it. And so I just want to highlight this because it’s another one of these techniques that people who maybe, whether it’s because they think differently or don’t have the experience or have just never been through this idea of developing their mental modeling skill as a discipline, we want to give a lot of practical techniques. So this structure is known as a Chiastic structure which comes from the Greek letter Chi, which looks like the Latin letter X, where you have things that meet in the middle. And that’s exactly what you have here. And so in ancient Greek poetry, and actually many of the ancient Near Eastern languages, this was a common thing to have a Chiastic structure where the first thing corresponds to the last thing. And the second thing corresponds to the penultimate thing. And that’s exactly what you have here. You have six things and one corresponds to six, two corresponds to five, three corresponds to four. So it doesn’t matter whether it’s called a Chiastic structure or something other than that’s just like a nice little mental hook to hang things on. And whenever you have a sequence of things, it’s interesting to say is there some sort of a Chiastic structure or other way that these things that might appear linear actually have some sort of lateral connections.
Jeremy
Yeah, I think that’s a good point. I’ve seen Chiastic structures used. I mean, it’s a it’s a common formula used in writing and in storytelling. It always starts with something like somebody’s in trouble and then it goes through a bunch of different things where they’re in trouble and they find a mentor and bad things happen. And then it turns a point, then good things start happening and then it comes back to where they’re saved. So they start in trouble, they go through problems, they come back and they’re saved. And that’s just a formula really that gets you from one point to the next. But it’s supported by a bunch of components in the middle.
Myron
And I think that that one thing I want to point out is, again, to someone who’s learning these techniques and hearing this for the first time, it may sound a little artificial. Like, well, you’re just making that up. And I would respond to that in two ways. Number one, we are talking about abstractions. These are mental models. They’re always made up. But if we do our job carefully, they have a high level of correspondence to the real world. That’s number one. Number two, our mental models are not purely descriptive. They’re normative. We are saying do something with them. We’re saying there’s an outcome to achieve that’s better than the other alternatives. And so we’re using mental models as a tool to get to those outcomes. And it’s helpful if I’m the one developing presenting the mental model, that I do it in a way that’s very understandable to the people I’m asking to adopt it. And a Chiastic structure, as you just pointed out, is one of the most common structures in storytelling. I was referring to it in poetry because it kind of corresponds to that line by line thing, the way we have the stage by stage thing, but also in storytelling. Chiastic structures or things like that resonate with the human brain. So if you take a mental model and you’re using things like this that make it easy for people to understand and adapt to, even if you never talk about the Chiastic structure. Most people don’t care about that. In a business setting where you’re trying to solve a problem, no one cares if it’s a Chiastic structure. But if you, not you Jeremy. Speaking to the audience because you’ve already done this. But if you are building out a mental model to help walk through a process and you structure your model in such a way that, number one, has a high correspondence to reality and number two, is likely to resonate with your audience, then your likelihood of success goes up dramatically.
Jeremy
So I was thinking about this as you were talking there. Tell me what you think about this. Because I hear people always talk about bridging the gap between strategy and execution, but there really isn’t a gap. If you think about it in terms of a Chiastic structure, there are two similar ideas that are connected together. The way we’re connecting the strategy and execution pillars, basically. So it’s not really a gap. They’re connected. You just have to follow the connections. And I don’t want to get too academic here because we always want to keep things practical. But it seems like that’s a great way to put lateral thinking into perspective. That it’s not closing a gap. It’s really just connecting things that are similar already, but connecting them together.
Myron
Yeah, that’s a really good point. And I would say the question of is there a gap or is there not a gap kind of goes back to episode zero where we talked about making distinctions. And it kind of depends somewhat on how you define is there a gap or not. I think we can say there is a gap because if you have a sort of a teleological approach to things of saying we’re going to design something and then we’re going to build it. Well, if what you build doesn’t match what you design, then we could say that’s a gap. But when you’re talking about a system, particularly in business, where what we are talking about is management processes that are somewhat ongoing. And you have a group of people working together, the ability to have this as a continuous improvement process and really eliminate those gaps in how you function, I think is part of what this lateral take on your previously linear model does. And so I think it does eliminate those gaps in that sense.
Jeremy
OK, that’s a helpful explanation of it. Sometimes I think about there being a gap that we’re always trying to close. Everyone’s trying to figure out how to close the gap. But I think that if we can avoid gaps in the first place by following this structure, then that is a way to kind of avoid hazards or work around hazards.
Jeremy
Well, I think it’s a great conversation.
Myron
I think so, too. And so we’re going to start, over the next episode, go through the six stages and digging into them a little deeper. But as always, we’re trying to operate at a few different levels here. We’re trying to present and show some mental models that we have used, that we have developed. And folks can take those and apply them. We’re also trying to show specific techniques such as lateral thinking and the Chiastic structure as one way of designing processes. And then we’re also trying to help people learn to develop their own mental models using these techniques and applying them. So hopefully we’ve given that with looking at another take on your six stages of strategy and execution with these two aligned pillars and the lateral connections. We’ve talked about lateral thinking in the Edward De Bono sense of simply looking at different ways of shifting your thinking to view a problem differently. Getting out of your thinking rut. And we’ve talked about Chiastic structure as one specific lateral thinking tool. And so hopefully we’ve given some good practical things. And we want everyone to go out and apply that and look at ways to do that.
Myron
Also, we want you to go to mentalsupermodels.com/2 and check out the show notes. And continue using these techniques that we have presented to increase the likelihood that you’ll achieve the goals when you’re setting out a process. And we will talk to everyone next time.
